I was too busy helping prepare and submit emergency COVID research grants in the early pandemic days to have any free time. Nothing like being told on a Friday afternoon that (redacted) wanted a five million dollar budget by Monday morning to ruin a weekend, for example
Upon reading legendary show with five seasons that damaged it's legacy when one of those is bad (paraphrased), my brain immediately leapt to season five of The Wire. I mean . . . What were they thinking?
I am not a fan of Netflix bloat, which has spread to all platforms. In particular prestige drama bloat (where you can’t see anything or understand the dialogue without subtitles). I think a lot of people are tired of it which is why they’re all mainlining blue sky USA shows. It does predate the pandemic but you make a good point that people are going to be less forgiving of the bloat now. I like shows with compelling episodes. I am fine with series or season arcs but the episodes need to stand on their own.
I am definitely curious to hear your thoughts on Shogun as it continues. I am doing less “weekly” shows and more just watching TV at my own pace. So I am fine waiting for Shogun to conclude before I start it.
"And by the TV gods you can really truly and utterly tell a huge, legendary tale in five seasons (but you can also fuck up one of them and ruin your legacy; not to be a downer)."
Now you're just being mean to Game of Thrones & Westworld...
In one of the other posts, I noted that I'd looked back at the runtime of the original 3 episode Shogun series and figured that it was a little less than 9 hours in length and this Shōgun would probably be about an hour longer with 10 episodes.. For me, with something as dense as a Clavell Asian Saga novel, longer is better. There's so much ground to cover and so much nuance to the characters so development is critical. I'm hoping that with the extra hour, Shōgun does that better (along with better cultural sensitivity/respect, etc).
You watch series as the episodes are released but for me, especially with long form narratives like Shōgun's, I much prefer the binge model so I'm patiently waiting and don't want to spoil it before I can immerse myself in the world — so I can't really have any sort of intelligent opinion on how successful this adaptation is — except to note that it looks spectacular and the cast is amazing.
I think one reason that the binge model works for me is exactly the one that sort of irritates you. Film makers viewing limited series as "a ten hour movie". I like the ten hour movie and I want to immerse myself in the world that can be only really created with that much breathing space to tell a story and truly flesh out the characters.
Yes, the pandemic was a weird inside-out world for all of us, for me especially because I was doing everything I could to keep my father from being isolated. I'm pretty sure that the pandemic contributed to Dad's being "ready to go" when he did. Many people still haven't recovered to any sense of what was normal pre-pandemic and some, like my father didn't survive its effects.
It was weird spending a couple of years with life sort of suspended. There were some positives (getting shit done that had been put off, etc) but overall not an experience I'd like to repeat.
As for reading, War and Peace, Ulysses, Remembrance of Things Past, In Search Of Lost Time, naaaaaaah, been there/done that. I went through a period of heavy literature years ago, I'll throw in Moby Dick, Pilgrims Progress, A Tale of Two Cities, Le Morte de Arture (the original text), etc. Instead, I indulged in ridiculously long series of books like The Wheel of Time series, etc. I wanted immersion and stuff like that gave it to me.
I also "went into a field" and did some solo camping during the pandemic and it was kind of great — even if lonely.
I can't wait to read you when you put on your Cranky Pants™ and eviscerate the unnamed other series.
I read several books during the lockdown, but my big one was “The Great War for Civilization” by Robert Fisk 1100 VERY dense pages, but A FANTASTIC READ…
After reading your thoughts on the lockdown and its aftermath I feel like I owe you and my fellow bastards (it’s growing on me) a confession:
I this era of peak television and in the context of not wanting my time wasted AND having a never ending list of show recommendations, I have been finishing up season 3 of “The Righteous Gemstones”…
It’s not particularly good, and I’m not particularly interested, but I’m just sort of finishing to finish…
What a a tough topic. I don’t consider the pandemic minimally significant to me. Given that I have a chronic condition that limited my life much more than the pandemic ever did, save for a couple of things, I barely noticed. With respect to time, it didn’t make any difference to me, though I can relate to the extent in which my health forced me into similar situations. What is significant to me, time-wise, is that 1. I am older (and have watched a lot); 2. There is much more choice; 3. My condition prevents me from watching over a specific amount of time, so I have to choose wisely, which generally means informed viewing.
As for the way a series uses its time, I am more tolerant to series than miniseries for time wasted, but I will watch a miniseries till its ending given that there are just a few episodes, but I give up on a long standing series if this becomes a recurring issue.
I thought about the most recent miniseries I watched. The ones enjoyed were, in no particular order, Nolly, One Day, Fellow Travelers, Beef, A Murder at the End of the World, The Fall of the House of Usher, Fleishman is in Trouble, and The Makanai: cooking for the maiko house. Fleishman took its time to arrive to its point, but it made sense in the end. The Makanai was slow, but that was part of its identity and it made sense because it was part of the experience it provided. "One Day" used its time really well and it had the luxury shows on steaming services have: episode's length varies.
As for miniseries I didn’t enjoy as much as I was expecting, I can name Transatlantic, Conversations with friends, Lessons in chemistry, and Exploitation. None of them had what I would feel are “time issues”, save perhaps for Conversations.
I am all for slow storytelling, that takes its time and also provides “detours”, which are occasionally what make the show richer, but as long as they make sense.
I know, in the end I can’t give a very reasoned reply to your thoughts, in evaluating what makes sense and what is a waste of my time, but I think they push me to think more about it.
After watching last week's episode of Shōgun I was concerned at how much of the book/story they wouldn't cover because they used the *entire* episode to get someone out of Osaka! We (the husband and I) are less likely to sit through a "limited series" if it doesn't engage early on. Now that we can go out and do things we're more likely to opt for that than watching mediocre tv.
Reading your thoughts about pacing, the first show that comes to my mind is Netflix's "1899." It was an 8 episode season and although I enjoyed it well enough, the pacing was well...methodical. Maybe 2-3 episodes in, it was clear it was building towards some sort of twist. And to be fair, when that twist happened, it was one of those "what the fuck" moments & it changed the direction of the show.
But that twist happened in the very last scene of the season. Which was a problem for two reasons. One, Netflix didn't pick it up for a second season. And two, the reason they didn't was because so many viewers gave up at some point. If the twist had been moved up even a couple of episodes (and there was plenty of ways that could have been done), it would have sent the show off in its new direction and likely saved it.
I was too busy helping prepare and submit emergency COVID research grants in the early pandemic days to have any free time. Nothing like being told on a Friday afternoon that (redacted) wanted a five million dollar budget by Monday morning to ruin a weekend, for example
Upon reading legendary show with five seasons that damaged it's legacy when one of those is bad (paraphrased), my brain immediately leapt to season five of The Wire. I mean . . . What were they thinking?
I am not a fan of Netflix bloat, which has spread to all platforms. In particular prestige drama bloat (where you can’t see anything or understand the dialogue without subtitles). I think a lot of people are tired of it which is why they’re all mainlining blue sky USA shows. It does predate the pandemic but you make a good point that people are going to be less forgiving of the bloat now. I like shows with compelling episodes. I am fine with series or season arcs but the episodes need to stand on their own.
I am definitely curious to hear your thoughts on Shogun as it continues. I am doing less “weekly” shows and more just watching TV at my own pace. So I am fine waiting for Shogun to conclude before I start it.
"And by the TV gods you can really truly and utterly tell a huge, legendary tale in five seasons (but you can also fuck up one of them and ruin your legacy; not to be a downer)."
Now you're just being mean to Game of Thrones & Westworld...
In one of the other posts, I noted that I'd looked back at the runtime of the original 3 episode Shogun series and figured that it was a little less than 9 hours in length and this Shōgun would probably be about an hour longer with 10 episodes.. For me, with something as dense as a Clavell Asian Saga novel, longer is better. There's so much ground to cover and so much nuance to the characters so development is critical. I'm hoping that with the extra hour, Shōgun does that better (along with better cultural sensitivity/respect, etc).
You watch series as the episodes are released but for me, especially with long form narratives like Shōgun's, I much prefer the binge model so I'm patiently waiting and don't want to spoil it before I can immerse myself in the world — so I can't really have any sort of intelligent opinion on how successful this adaptation is — except to note that it looks spectacular and the cast is amazing.
I think one reason that the binge model works for me is exactly the one that sort of irritates you. Film makers viewing limited series as "a ten hour movie". I like the ten hour movie and I want to immerse myself in the world that can be only really created with that much breathing space to tell a story and truly flesh out the characters.
Yes, the pandemic was a weird inside-out world for all of us, for me especially because I was doing everything I could to keep my father from being isolated. I'm pretty sure that the pandemic contributed to Dad's being "ready to go" when he did. Many people still haven't recovered to any sense of what was normal pre-pandemic and some, like my father didn't survive its effects.
It was weird spending a couple of years with life sort of suspended. There were some positives (getting shit done that had been put off, etc) but overall not an experience I'd like to repeat.
As for reading, War and Peace, Ulysses, Remembrance of Things Past, In Search Of Lost Time, naaaaaaah, been there/done that. I went through a period of heavy literature years ago, I'll throw in Moby Dick, Pilgrims Progress, A Tale of Two Cities, Le Morte de Arture (the original text), etc. Instead, I indulged in ridiculously long series of books like The Wheel of Time series, etc. I wanted immersion and stuff like that gave it to me.
I also "went into a field" and did some solo camping during the pandemic and it was kind of great — even if lonely.
I can't wait to read you when you put on your Cranky Pants™ and eviscerate the unnamed other series.
Make a little birdhouse in your soul...
I read several books during the lockdown, but my big one was “The Great War for Civilization” by Robert Fisk 1100 VERY dense pages, but A FANTASTIC READ…
After reading your thoughts on the lockdown and its aftermath I feel like I owe you and my fellow bastards (it’s growing on me) a confession:
I this era of peak television and in the context of not wanting my time wasted AND having a never ending list of show recommendations, I have been finishing up season 3 of “The Righteous Gemstones”…
It’s not particularly good, and I’m not particularly interested, but I’m just sort of finishing to finish…
I promise I’ll do better!!! 😂😂😂
What a a tough topic. I don’t consider the pandemic minimally significant to me. Given that I have a chronic condition that limited my life much more than the pandemic ever did, save for a couple of things, I barely noticed. With respect to time, it didn’t make any difference to me, though I can relate to the extent in which my health forced me into similar situations. What is significant to me, time-wise, is that 1. I am older (and have watched a lot); 2. There is much more choice; 3. My condition prevents me from watching over a specific amount of time, so I have to choose wisely, which generally means informed viewing.
As for the way a series uses its time, I am more tolerant to series than miniseries for time wasted, but I will watch a miniseries till its ending given that there are just a few episodes, but I give up on a long standing series if this becomes a recurring issue.
I thought about the most recent miniseries I watched. The ones enjoyed were, in no particular order, Nolly, One Day, Fellow Travelers, Beef, A Murder at the End of the World, The Fall of the House of Usher, Fleishman is in Trouble, and The Makanai: cooking for the maiko house. Fleishman took its time to arrive to its point, but it made sense in the end. The Makanai was slow, but that was part of its identity and it made sense because it was part of the experience it provided. "One Day" used its time really well and it had the luxury shows on steaming services have: episode's length varies.
As for miniseries I didn’t enjoy as much as I was expecting, I can name Transatlantic, Conversations with friends, Lessons in chemistry, and Exploitation. None of them had what I would feel are “time issues”, save perhaps for Conversations.
I am all for slow storytelling, that takes its time and also provides “detours”, which are occasionally what make the show richer, but as long as they make sense.
I know, in the end I can’t give a very reasoned reply to your thoughts, in evaluating what makes sense and what is a waste of my time, but I think they push me to think more about it.
After watching last week's episode of Shōgun I was concerned at how much of the book/story they wouldn't cover because they used the *entire* episode to get someone out of Osaka! We (the husband and I) are less likely to sit through a "limited series" if it doesn't engage early on. Now that we can go out and do things we're more likely to opt for that than watching mediocre tv.
Reading your thoughts about pacing, the first show that comes to my mind is Netflix's "1899." It was an 8 episode season and although I enjoyed it well enough, the pacing was well...methodical. Maybe 2-3 episodes in, it was clear it was building towards some sort of twist. And to be fair, when that twist happened, it was one of those "what the fuck" moments & it changed the direction of the show.
But that twist happened in the very last scene of the season. Which was a problem for two reasons. One, Netflix didn't pick it up for a second season. And two, the reason they didn't was because so many viewers gave up at some point. If the twist had been moved up even a couple of episodes (and there was plenty of ways that could have been done), it would have sent the show off in its new direction and likely saved it.