I appreciated the pregnancy storyline, that frames the scene for me +20 yrs on. People are procreating, and there's still that human urge to sit tight and raise a family despite external dangers. It gave me a sense of stability in these aftertimes that otherwise feel heavy with despair, despite the bonfire guitar playing, etc.
I didn’t think of this until I listened to Tim’s message above just now, but I really like how “I’m safe / I’m with a family” seems both true and untrue for Kirsten in year 0 with Jeevan and Frank and in year 20 with the Traveling Symphony. She’s with a family. She’s relatively safe at the moment. But the pandemic has made that safety incredibly fragile, and we start the episode with hints of exactly how fragile it is and how horrible it must have been to learn that.
Some other random thoughts:
- As a former midwesterner, I can confirm that the Mackinac Island pronounciation would be a tell. I pointed that out to my wife just after creepy dude said it, and it was neat to see that pay off.
- How many words did it take for everyone to recognize the Independence Day speech? ‘Cause it was embarrassingly few over here. Like maybe three or four. Are cord-cutting and on-demand libraries pushing us towards the end of the time when tons of people know movies almost verbatim because they were on TNT incessantly?
It's early days, but so far I am finding the Year 0 scenes much more compelling than the Year 20 scenes. Of course it's easier to be compelling when you're telling the story of the end of the world as compared to the life of a traveling theatrical troupe. That said, after two solid episodes of good acting and good writing, I trust the show enough that I'm still looking forward to what happens next in both timelines.
The episode starts with a bloody Kirsten, festooned in red ribbons, sleeping against a wall. Kirsten is obviously alone. In the distance we hear music. We meet Sarah and the Traveling Symphony. According to Sarah, “We travel for a reason.” So I will take her word for it. The music in the background of the initial meeting is slow and calming as Sarah calms down the wild child. (The music in a show really has an impact on me, which is partly why I love this show.)
Showing the traumatic text from Kirsten’s Dad’s phone during her performance as Hamlet in a play about the loss of a father was heartbreaking, and so well played by Mackenzie Davis. We see again the PTSD first exhibited by young Kirsten in the beginning of the episode as she meets Sarah. Young Kirsten looks feral, and I immediately wanted to know where in the hell Jeevan was. Matilda Lawler’s performance in this episode was again, wonderful.
We are introduced to a stranger named David. Kirsten is immediately on alert, and I don’t blame her. The guy is creepy. He makes obvious references to the graphic novel, Station Eleven, which is confusing to Kirsten as she believes she has the only copy.
You’ve all seen the episode. It raises more questions than it answers. I want to know the answers!
Tim, I believe the pregnant lady is totally important, but will not say why yet. (I did not read the book.) You see the person in the tent again, but I think he is there to show a lifestyle, not a relationship. The strangers name also turns up again later in the series. Also, on my third watching I saw something obvious, that I should have noticed on my second viewing. LOL.
Wow. I found the episode to retain a superb amount of narrative bafflement (precisely what happened back then) that invites the viewer (me) to bask in every moment of the story. The Traveling Symphony and Kirsten’s starring role and the growing realisation (for me) that Kirsten invests EVERYTHING in the stability of the rolling seasons, etc. … all this sang to me. I like that none of the characters are over-egged or over-explained, that we have to invest ourselves intellectually and emotionally to partake in the story. So far, for me, there’s been nothing dumb or out of sync. If this were a book, I’d say something like “the director/writer has a sure grip on the pacing and the narrative.
And yes, the creepy guy is superb. Again, not overdone at all, which makes it even more freighted with dread.
The ultra short glimpses into the book she had, the “Station Eleven,” with its quotes, are superb, and hearing them from the mouth of the creepy guy makes me want to binge the next episode right now.
Anyway, enough from me. I’m the kind of viewer/reader who is all about “judging” and “rating” and at the moment, I’d rate Episodes 1 and 2 as 8/10 (or 4 stars if you like): an excellent start but let’s see if you end up as 9/10 or just 6/10.
Pacing is great, totally agree. I say that in the overall. Again, it just slowed a bit for me with the pregnant woman scene. But otherwise great. And part of the moving is becoming clear: Not just to stay safe, but to return to people, to be reliable.
Random thoughts - Lori Petty perfect for this; her fuck you, freedom-based brand of acting informs the narrative and vice versa. Mostly I felt scared, anxious and sad ... so that was accomplished. Kirsten's 'weird text' was eviscerating, and the whole flashback part of the episode my worst nightmare. That meant that the experience of 'Hamlet,' in a magical, medieval iteration that might be not unlike young William Shakespeare's experience of traveling players to Stratford, was comforting and grounding. So, as I suspected, art is the only constant. Kirsten is a worthy hero. I remain freaked out but will continue, nevertheless.
I will just add, though (he says, circling back and laughing) that Lori Petty is an acquired taste and I just can't...moments are right as you say, though. But there's some...uh, I don't know, other elements, especially later, that didn't work for me. But she's certainly unique.
lol. I actually know her (from working with her twice) and during that process quickly realized that she is never anything but authentically herself, which goes a long way, even when 'herself' is not necessarily the way you would have initially imagined a role or a moment could or should be done ...
I'm old enough to remember LP in A League of Their Own, but after Orange Is the New Black, I feel like I can only ever see her as Lolly (I think that was her name). And she'll always have that slightly insane connotation for me. Luckily it kind of fits her character here.
I really enjoyed reading everyone else's comments and LOVE Steven Rubio's "Feral Road Warrior Kid Comparison"...
This episode was my least favorite of Station Eleven in the same way that Season 5 of "The Wire" was my least favorite season: Still brilliant, but there was so much quality around it being simply brilliant is STILL not enough...
I noticed a distinctly green color palette anytime there was an establishing shot in the 20 years later timeline...
I thought it was pretty funny that they went out of their way to make sure that the logos for Coca Cola, Nabisco, Reebok, and Speedo were clearly in the frame but did everything they could to cover up The logos for Ford and Apple...
Still can't over the fact that "Sarah" was Keanu's love interest in "Point Break"...
Any show that has Mathesar from "Galaxy Quest" in a semi-stand off with Keanu's surf instructor from "Point Break" deserves our undivided attention...
I thought the anonymous bureaucratic text message to Kirsten letting her know her Mom was dead was eerily plausible and that entire scene was incredibly well done especially with the cross cutting to her on stage performance...
I feel very strongly that if you're gonna stab a creepy guy that is overtly threatening everyone you care about at the edge of a post apocalyptic campground you are obligated to make sure he bleeds out and is actually dead...
I agree with your assessment/critique of the pregnant woman HOWEVER there was a mention of the doctors and midwives from the "birthing center" which is of some significance...
(Not a word more of course)
For a moment they filmed Creepy guy from the same P.O.V. as the assassin from "Collateral"...
I enjoyed this episode but somehow it made me even more anxious than the previous one. Some random thoughts:
1) It seems like the theme of family was hit hard over snd over again. Between Kirsten’s text to her mom, to The Traveling Symphony being described as a family, to the one couple starting their own family with the baby. It was as if the producers thought we wouldn’t pick up the theme on our own if they didn’t spell it out.
2) The creepy guy was creepy and clearly full of shit from the beginning. Still it was shocking when he started threatening her friends and I noticeably gasped when she stabbed him. And yet I found myself wishing she had killed him and then wondered what that said about me.
3). I love that feral Kirsten still had enough of a sense of self to identify as a Shakespearean actor. Good for her. Lori Petty’s response when she heard who Kirsten studied under was priceless.
4) I have been paying attention to the camera placement since Tim talked about it as part of the guidelines for the Box Set and it has made things stand out that I don’t think I would have noticed otherwise. Specifically I liked how the audition was shot from a little lower as if we were watching with the others. The material for the audition was also a nice touch.
5) When Enrico Colantoni showed up with the invitation to perform for his hidden community, I felt like he was doing a version of his Galaxy Quest character (which would be no problem since I love that movie). Even now I can’t tell if that was a legitimate offer or a “let’s invite them and kill them all” offer.
Looking forward to some answers about Jheevan and Frank hopefully soon.
Good stuff, Heather, and yeah, I think it's inevitable that we get the "let's invite them and kill them all" thing, especially after Walking Dead and, well, so many others before it. Gotta survive, and sometimes surviving is getting a jump on your competition or killing the weakest part of the herd. As a writer, the first time I saw him I thought, well, I'll bet this dude has an interesting backstory...And yep, it's coming.
Tim, as someone who was already watching Station Eleven slowly and had gotten to ep 7 or 8, I just want to confirm how incredible it is to be able to rewatch a show like this. There are SO many details that escape notice on first viewing. But also, in a show like this where information is being spooled out only very slowly and partially, it's very cool to rewatch an episode like this one and know what will be coming in later episodes, particularly WRT the Jeevan and Frank period.
I hope it's not a spoiler to say this: I love Frank so much. Everyone talks about the Jeevan-Kirsten relationship but Frank has better parenting instincts.
Rebecca, I'm going to take this as affirmation (even if you didn't mean to imply such), that it helps to rewatch, watch actively, and to comment within a group. So, yay. When I was teaching, it all seemed like so much work (on top of my normal work, of course) but always felt worth it when their minds expanded and the students started critically analyzing everything.
Saying goodbye is a theme that I am noticing even more on rewatch. When Kirsten meets Sarah her reality is very much in flux with references to Dr. Eleven and fixing the ship and saying goodbye to Arthur, Jeevan and her little brother Frank. I didn’t connect the dots to her “new family” in both the theater and the brothers who take her in and her entanglement with the graphic novel.
I take the storyline with the pregnant woman as another chance to view Kirsten dealing with losing someone who has been with her since year three. It would be great to know more but I understand putting the time in so that we feel some of the loss too.
I wonder in the future what Kirsten’s grip on reality is. She is remembering and seeing the past along with us at different points in the episode, most dramatically during the scenes with Hamlet. And there are times where past dialogue is shown under present day scenes and vice versa.
I love that the show gives us credit as the viewer to know that the fact that it is only Jeevan and Kristen leaving the apartment that something has happened that we are unaware of. On first watch the small snippets don’t make sense without the context but it does well to pique interest in what is to come.
I also think it is clever how we get comments that fill in some of the narrative gaps. “I thought my first 100 was hard but you walked across Lake Michigan” Let’s us start to put the puzzle together.
I hope someday this substack discussion ends up in the “Museum of Civilization” where people can read what it it like for us to watch a show about a pandemic while in the midst of a pandemic. Or they can simply ignore it and say “F$@!$ the Past”
The second episode for me stands on four fundamental interconnected words: humanity, loss, art, and the past.
The new creepy character says "to the monsters, we are the monsters." Kirsten asks him "where did you hear that line?" It was like she was asking me, because I remembered hearing that phrase elsewhere recently. Then it occurred to me: in the movie "the Humans" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10023286/), where one of the characters (whose actor was in the cast of The Walking Dead) says that when he was a kid there was a comic book that he was obsessed with where space creatures that were half-aliens and half-demons told each other scary stories about us, the humans. I don't remember if the same phrase mentioned here as a prophecy is pronounced (and I have no way of checking), but the meaning was undoubtedly the same. The monsters are us. This gave me very much a sci-fi feeling (also the mention of a certain Dr. Eleven at the beginning of the episode, and linking it to the image of the man in space from the previous episode), but at the same time it gave me the feeling of questioning what makes us human. I couldn't help but notice how wild Kirsten was when she first meets Sarah, who invites her to join the Travelling Symphony. It's not just surviving that makes us human, it's more.
The juxtapositions of Kirsten finding out her parents are dead (or at least one of them) and her acting in Hamlet and the scene regarding the cell phone (then and now) were very powerful. The sense of the past and what it means in the present was strong. The loss is self-evident. Someone here commented at the end of the first episode that they had been reminded of The Leftovers and I hadn't been. But in this episode, I myself was reminded of it, and the feeling was very intense (also the bronze statue, the echoes of the Guilty Remnans with “I remember damage”, the city of Miracle with the whole crowd). Knowing from listening and reading here that the pregnant woman isn't coming back leaves me indifferent. I didn't expect her to return (or possibly in a second season, in case). To me she represents one of the many people who unexpectedly disappear from Kirsten's life, something which she struggles with, from what we are told. And a pregnant woman with a baby represents the future, Kirsten still represents the past, she is anchored to the past, a past that is lost. The final dirge gives the sense of grieving, but even at the beginning when the caravan passes by and is greeted with joy, I got the sense of loss. I had a quick flash of the funeral processions in "Treme," with the second line, and despite the cheerful tone, I got the feeling of celebration of something that is truly gone, of a past that you want to honor. It’s something that you cherish, but that just passes. Again, this feeling came back when the Museum of Civilization representative showed up (nice to see Colantoni). Arthur’s memory, someone we saw dying, is very present.
Here, as in the rest of the episode, art is civilization, art is what allows us to make sense of the world (and again I'm thinking especially of Kirsten finding out about her parents' death and about her acting), it gives meaning. Given that in Shakespeare's time it was men who played the female roles, I found it fitting that it was the new hire who played Gertrude. I was stimulated to hear "it's not about you" referred to acting.
It was a shock - despite the fact that she had previously said that the tattoos on her arm indicated the people she had killed - to see her stab someone. Again, an act that speaks about humanity (or the lack of it) by someone who, as a Shakespearean actor, probably has done that on the stage many times. The world is a stage to Shakespeare, isn’t it? Sorry, thoughts chase each other and overlap. And the tattoos, that symbol is familiar to me as well, but I just think that it reminds me of the one in "Heroes", which I think is supposed to symbolize DNA… I guess (wink to the creepy guy).
Lovely stuff. And, to the point I was making about varied opinions, I love that you took (from finding out the pregnant woman isn't really a presence going forward) that it's a natural element of people coming into and out of Kirsten's life. That's totally legit. I think the difficult part of having "rules" when you're a critic (and not having them so much as a writer), is that in really great shows there are no wasted shots. I still truly believe that, but I can also see how some things "leave an impression" and are not always needing to be purposeful. I don't know. I'm really intrigued by both arguments. For someone who loves ambiguity in storytelling, that doesn't jibe with my critic brain saying, "OK, so why do this, why spend so long on it, without it contributing significantly to the story" -- which is also a good writer's rule, of course.
I totally get what you're saying. And it makes sense. Unity would require that she is at least mentioned again. I don't know, perhaps it is me who have watched soaps for many years and expect her to reappear later, or perhaps it was the character saying something along the lines of "how do you know?" (that we will see each other again), which was a reply that mede sense but that surprised me, but I was expecting not to see her again soon, but in future seasons perhaps.
That Hamlet scene alternating with the flashbacks was indeed quite incredible. And I had the thought: does she do this nearly every night in order to summon up these strong emotions on stage? Can you imagine?
The second week in a row that you have had terrific responses to the episode. Thanks! Also, many have noted similarities to The Leftovers, and I'm always ready to rethink that fine show, but I'm happy to see your mention of Treme. Is it just me, or does that show exist on a not-as-good-as-some-shows plane? I loved Treme, but I rarely hear/read about it anymore.
I enjoy the connections to other shows. It sounds like all of us have similar tv interests, so it makes it fun to hear what like-minded people have to say. I loved Treme and have yet to meet someone who has even heard of it. You do a great job of being reminded of other shows.
Treme is often unappreciated for what it did and how that came about -- it was a show that marinated in a vibe. Like, "this is a series of stories about New Orleans; all of these things happen at the same time, but may not necessarily be related or, by themselves, dramatic." And I don't think that show gets made if David Simon doesn't do The Wire and, in some part, "Generation Kill," which seemed like a partial favor to HBO at the time.
Rabbit Hole: Put me on the list for a Treme re-watch and discussion. Once you realize that the Davis McElery storyline is not the story of Treme, it's a much better show. It will break your heart, again and again. And, it's got Elvis Costello hanging out with Allen Toussant for a couple episodes!
Thank you for that connection: I saw The Humans on stage and as a movie and it made me feel uncomfortable both times, as does Station Eleven. The idea of humans being the monsters to the monsters comes up in other stories, usually sci-fi and horror, as a way to spin the fear lens around from the creature to ourselves. In The Walking Dead, it becomes apparent rather quickly that the dead are not as dangerous as the other living, and this theme has been set up rather strongly on Station Eleven from the start. Young Kirsten’s parents taught her not to trust strangers and Jeevan introduced himself, named himself to her. We still don’t know the name of the creepy guy. Stranger danger.
I suspect that Kirsten has had to kill people before and that there’s truth in her warning to the creepy guy when she gives that answer about her tattoos, even though she plays it off as a joke in a way that suggests she’s probably kidding she also wants him to think twice about starting anything. The way that she ran to look for Alex and wielded her knife shows much more experience and skill compared to Young Kirsten—both appear motivated by fear-driven self-preservation and there’s clearly more confidence and control that she commands in an unknown situation as an adult. I think she has had to kill humans and that we will learn more about this. I suspect it has something to do with how she ended up separated from Jeevan and Frank, and was left alone to fend for herself as a feral kid. Although we hear often that killing another person takes away one’s humanity, what is it when you kill to protect those you love? In a way that’s very human indeed. I’m rather interested to see how the show tackles this moral quandary.
The intercutting between Hamlet and Kirsten’s personal trauma of the loss of her parents works on many levels. Yes, it’s a function of the reveal of story elements through two timelines with thematic interspersion. But it also comes on the heels of her giving the new guy his first acting lesson, and I saw it as an example of how Kirsten was using her personal memories and calling up those emotions to use in her acting as part of her method. I love how that scene works on multiple levels.
Also, so cool to see Lori Petty again! I loved her in her movies in 1990–1992 and then never saw her again. Just last year I was wondering what ever happened with her career.
The second episode is where I tapped out the first time around. The tension in it caused a lot of anxious feelings for me. The jumping back and forth starts to fill in some of the gaps, making us think about the characters that are shown and those who are missing.
I loved the Independence Day monologue audition, along with the imagined intercom sounds and musical score.
I'm interested in seeing the scenes that directly preceded the start of this episode. How did Kirsten end up in a heap next to the wall? Whose blood is that?
I also get distracted by and focus on the weirdest things. Like why did Kirsten leave the theater still wearing her costume? Also, she's wearing an L.L. Bean jacket and backpack.
I'm always fixated on the clothes and music and colors. Three key things. So, yeah, right there. I think maybe she'd wearing her costume because she didn't have a chance to change. And it works great because it's so absurd.
Yeah that makes sense. I’m just thinking in a post-pandemic world with no electricity etc wouldn’t people migrate to a mild climate where survival is easier.
I do love the show & the book tho
& like you said about collateral, it’s a short series (and a relatively short book too) so I’m not trying to get caught up in the intricacies of world-building; it’s not GoT where every detail is explained
Interesting that the episode starts with Kirsten covered in blood and with bloody handprints on the wall - it makes you wonder if she had to kill (people? animals?) as a 9/10-yr old in that time on her own before she joined the Traveling Symphony. And of course she's quite deft at stabbing the stranger.
The traveling symphony scenes are so interesting cuz they feel like the Renaissance Faires I used to go to as a teenager (lol). It's like they're cosplaying the Middle Ages, but they're not cosplaying because technology really has regressed! That scene where Kirsten is explaining Uber to Alex!! Must be so weird to live a forced-back-to-the-land life.
This is my second watch, and I must admit that I have wondered where they get their food and drink from. Are they just foraging and/or making it all from scratch? Are they bartering with the small communities where they stop and perform - so like we perform for you and you feed us?
I definitely think the assumption is she had to kill...something. I like the vague part of that. It's like, oh, Young Kristen maybe killed a squirrel or something. Then she pulls the secret switch blade with the straight-in blade. And you think, hmmm, maybe she's killed more.
20 years on my guess is they are pretty much at the grow it, kill it, forage it stage. Anything from the before times would not be edible anymore. The troupe performs, and as payment they get fed.
I confess that when I first watched this episode, I was completely confused, so much so that I was ready to give up on the series. Then my wife explained things, and I decided to give it another chance, and I'm glad I did.
As this is a new online community, and we are all mostly new to each other, I should add that I regularly get lost in plots that are more complicated than See Spot Run, so my confusion is likely just because I was dropped on my head when I was a kid.
Young Kirsten with Knife reminded me of the Feral Kid in Road Warrior.
Trying to stay spoiler free: right after we watched episode three my husband and I looked at each other and both of us said we felt lost. So glad we kept watching!
Steven, this made me laugh, for a couple of reasons. But the main one is that I was once watching a show where I just absolutely could not figure it out and my partner was like, wow, you kinda nail this most of the time so it's strange that you didn't know X was related to Y and they were all working for Z. Seems pretty obvious." So, yeah, happens to all of us. But hey, YES, great connection to Road Warrior. My second viewing of that scene made me realize just how much direction went into it (how Kirsten moves her mouth, etc.) on top of the way they styled her hair to be so, well, feral.
I appreciated the pregnancy storyline, that frames the scene for me +20 yrs on. People are procreating, and there's still that human urge to sit tight and raise a family despite external dangers. It gave me a sense of stability in these aftertimes that otherwise feel heavy with despair, despite the bonfire guitar playing, etc.
I didn’t think of this until I listened to Tim’s message above just now, but I really like how “I’m safe / I’m with a family” seems both true and untrue for Kirsten in year 0 with Jeevan and Frank and in year 20 with the Traveling Symphony. She’s with a family. She’s relatively safe at the moment. But the pandemic has made that safety incredibly fragile, and we start the episode with hints of exactly how fragile it is and how horrible it must have been to learn that.
Some other random thoughts:
- As a former midwesterner, I can confirm that the Mackinac Island pronounciation would be a tell. I pointed that out to my wife just after creepy dude said it, and it was neat to see that pay off.
- How many words did it take for everyone to recognize the Independence Day speech? ‘Cause it was embarrassingly few over here. Like maybe three or four. Are cord-cutting and on-demand libraries pushing us towards the end of the time when tons of people know movies almost verbatim because they were on TNT incessantly?
Laughed at this...Yep, maybe not the first couple of lines, but I did pick it up. I think I saw that in the theater?
Only took a sentence to recognize the Independence Day speech over here. God Bless TNT.
It's early days, but so far I am finding the Year 0 scenes much more compelling than the Year 20 scenes. Of course it's easier to be compelling when you're telling the story of the end of the world as compared to the life of a traveling theatrical troupe. That said, after two solid episodes of good acting and good writing, I trust the show enough that I'm still looking forward to what happens next in both timelines.
100% this
The episode starts with a bloody Kirsten, festooned in red ribbons, sleeping against a wall. Kirsten is obviously alone. In the distance we hear music. We meet Sarah and the Traveling Symphony. According to Sarah, “We travel for a reason.” So I will take her word for it. The music in the background of the initial meeting is slow and calming as Sarah calms down the wild child. (The music in a show really has an impact on me, which is partly why I love this show.)
Showing the traumatic text from Kirsten’s Dad’s phone during her performance as Hamlet in a play about the loss of a father was heartbreaking, and so well played by Mackenzie Davis. We see again the PTSD first exhibited by young Kirsten in the beginning of the episode as she meets Sarah. Young Kirsten looks feral, and I immediately wanted to know where in the hell Jeevan was. Matilda Lawler’s performance in this episode was again, wonderful.
We are introduced to a stranger named David. Kirsten is immediately on alert, and I don’t blame her. The guy is creepy. He makes obvious references to the graphic novel, Station Eleven, which is confusing to Kirsten as she believes she has the only copy.
You’ve all seen the episode. It raises more questions than it answers. I want to know the answers!
Tim, I believe the pregnant lady is totally important, but will not say why yet. (I did not read the book.) You see the person in the tent again, but I think he is there to show a lifestyle, not a relationship. The strangers name also turns up again later in the series. Also, on my third watching I saw something obvious, that I should have noticed on my second viewing. LOL.
Can I just comment in emojis? 🤷♂️😴🔪🔪🔪
I laughed at this, Eric.
Wow. I found the episode to retain a superb amount of narrative bafflement (precisely what happened back then) that invites the viewer (me) to bask in every moment of the story. The Traveling Symphony and Kirsten’s starring role and the growing realisation (for me) that Kirsten invests EVERYTHING in the stability of the rolling seasons, etc. … all this sang to me. I like that none of the characters are over-egged or over-explained, that we have to invest ourselves intellectually and emotionally to partake in the story. So far, for me, there’s been nothing dumb or out of sync. If this were a book, I’d say something like “the director/writer has a sure grip on the pacing and the narrative.
And yes, the creepy guy is superb. Again, not overdone at all, which makes it even more freighted with dread.
The ultra short glimpses into the book she had, the “Station Eleven,” with its quotes, are superb, and hearing them from the mouth of the creepy guy makes me want to binge the next episode right now.
Anyway, enough from me. I’m the kind of viewer/reader who is all about “judging” and “rating” and at the moment, I’d rate Episodes 1 and 2 as 8/10 (or 4 stars if you like): an excellent start but let’s see if you end up as 9/10 or just 6/10.
Pacing is great, totally agree. I say that in the overall. Again, it just slowed a bit for me with the pregnant woman scene. But otherwise great. And part of the moving is becoming clear: Not just to stay safe, but to return to people, to be reliable.
Random thoughts - Lori Petty perfect for this; her fuck you, freedom-based brand of acting informs the narrative and vice versa. Mostly I felt scared, anxious and sad ... so that was accomplished. Kirsten's 'weird text' was eviscerating, and the whole flashback part of the episode my worst nightmare. That meant that the experience of 'Hamlet,' in a magical, medieval iteration that might be not unlike young William Shakespeare's experience of traveling players to Stratford, was comforting and grounding. So, as I suspected, art is the only constant. Kirsten is a worthy hero. I remain freaked out but will continue, nevertheless.
Oh, Suzanne, love all of this, particularly the "young William Shakespeare experience" and art being the only constant.
Thank you! This series is just haunting.
I will just add, though (he says, circling back and laughing) that Lori Petty is an acquired taste and I just can't...moments are right as you say, though. But there's some...uh, I don't know, other elements, especially later, that didn't work for me. But she's certainly unique.
lol. I actually know her (from working with her twice) and during that process quickly realized that she is never anything but authentically herself, which goes a long way, even when 'herself' is not necessarily the way you would have initially imagined a role or a moment could or should be done ...
I'm old enough to remember LP in A League of Their Own, but after Orange Is the New Black, I feel like I can only ever see her as Lolly (I think that was her name). And she'll always have that slightly insane connotation for me. Luckily it kind of fits her character here.
I honestly didn’t know she was in either of those, I think it’s time I did an IMDB check in!!!
(Note: I've seen all 10 episodes)
I really enjoyed reading everyone else's comments and LOVE Steven Rubio's "Feral Road Warrior Kid Comparison"...
This episode was my least favorite of Station Eleven in the same way that Season 5 of "The Wire" was my least favorite season: Still brilliant, but there was so much quality around it being simply brilliant is STILL not enough...
I noticed a distinctly green color palette anytime there was an establishing shot in the 20 years later timeline...
I thought it was pretty funny that they went out of their way to make sure that the logos for Coca Cola, Nabisco, Reebok, and Speedo were clearly in the frame but did everything they could to cover up The logos for Ford and Apple...
Still can't over the fact that "Sarah" was Keanu's love interest in "Point Break"...
Any show that has Mathesar from "Galaxy Quest" in a semi-stand off with Keanu's surf instructor from "Point Break" deserves our undivided attention...
I thought the anonymous bureaucratic text message to Kirsten letting her know her Mom was dead was eerily plausible and that entire scene was incredibly well done especially with the cross cutting to her on stage performance...
I feel very strongly that if you're gonna stab a creepy guy that is overtly threatening everyone you care about at the edge of a post apocalyptic campground you are obligated to make sure he bleeds out and is actually dead...
I agree with your assessment/critique of the pregnant woman HOWEVER there was a mention of the doctors and midwives from the "birthing center" which is of some significance...
(Not a word more of course)
For a moment they filmed Creepy guy from the same P.O.V. as the assassin from "Collateral"...
Keanu and Galaxy Quest references...winner.
I hear you about Keanu's love interest, but to this day, when I see Lori Petty I think of Tank Girl.
Me too!
I enjoyed this episode but somehow it made me even more anxious than the previous one. Some random thoughts:
1) It seems like the theme of family was hit hard over snd over again. Between Kirsten’s text to her mom, to The Traveling Symphony being described as a family, to the one couple starting their own family with the baby. It was as if the producers thought we wouldn’t pick up the theme on our own if they didn’t spell it out.
2) The creepy guy was creepy and clearly full of shit from the beginning. Still it was shocking when he started threatening her friends and I noticeably gasped when she stabbed him. And yet I found myself wishing she had killed him and then wondered what that said about me.
3). I love that feral Kirsten still had enough of a sense of self to identify as a Shakespearean actor. Good for her. Lori Petty’s response when she heard who Kirsten studied under was priceless.
4) I have been paying attention to the camera placement since Tim talked about it as part of the guidelines for the Box Set and it has made things stand out that I don’t think I would have noticed otherwise. Specifically I liked how the audition was shot from a little lower as if we were watching with the others. The material for the audition was also a nice touch.
5) When Enrico Colantoni showed up with the invitation to perform for his hidden community, I felt like he was doing a version of his Galaxy Quest character (which would be no problem since I love that movie). Even now I can’t tell if that was a legitimate offer or a “let’s invite them and kill them all” offer.
Looking forward to some answers about Jheevan and Frank hopefully soon.
Good stuff, Heather, and yeah, I think it's inevitable that we get the "let's invite them and kill them all" thing, especially after Walking Dead and, well, so many others before it. Gotta survive, and sometimes surviving is getting a jump on your competition or killing the weakest part of the herd. As a writer, the first time I saw him I thought, well, I'll bet this dude has an interesting backstory...And yep, it's coming.
Tim, as someone who was already watching Station Eleven slowly and had gotten to ep 7 or 8, I just want to confirm how incredible it is to be able to rewatch a show like this. There are SO many details that escape notice on first viewing. But also, in a show like this where information is being spooled out only very slowly and partially, it's very cool to rewatch an episode like this one and know what will be coming in later episodes, particularly WRT the Jeevan and Frank period.
I hope it's not a spoiler to say this: I love Frank so much. Everyone talks about the Jeevan-Kirsten relationship but Frank has better parenting instincts.
Rebecca, I'm going to take this as affirmation (even if you didn't mean to imply such), that it helps to rewatch, watch actively, and to comment within a group. So, yay. When I was teaching, it all seemed like so much work (on top of my normal work, of course) but always felt worth it when their minds expanded and the students started critically analyzing everything.
Saying goodbye is a theme that I am noticing even more on rewatch. When Kirsten meets Sarah her reality is very much in flux with references to Dr. Eleven and fixing the ship and saying goodbye to Arthur, Jeevan and her little brother Frank. I didn’t connect the dots to her “new family” in both the theater and the brothers who take her in and her entanglement with the graphic novel.
I take the storyline with the pregnant woman as another chance to view Kirsten dealing with losing someone who has been with her since year three. It would be great to know more but I understand putting the time in so that we feel some of the loss too.
I wonder in the future what Kirsten’s grip on reality is. She is remembering and seeing the past along with us at different points in the episode, most dramatically during the scenes with Hamlet. And there are times where past dialogue is shown under present day scenes and vice versa.
I love that the show gives us credit as the viewer to know that the fact that it is only Jeevan and Kristen leaving the apartment that something has happened that we are unaware of. On first watch the small snippets don’t make sense without the context but it does well to pique interest in what is to come.
I also think it is clever how we get comments that fill in some of the narrative gaps. “I thought my first 100 was hard but you walked across Lake Michigan” Let’s us start to put the puzzle together.
I hope someday this substack discussion ends up in the “Museum of Civilization” where people can read what it it like for us to watch a show about a pandemic while in the midst of a pandemic. Or they can simply ignore it and say “F$@!$ the Past”
You mean, "There is no before." Ha. And yes, I like Frank, too. Mostly I just wanted his apartment, tbh, but I also like him.
LOL to this discussion ending up in a Museum of Civilization.
It’s true some flashback are very short. The editing truly cut every bit to its essence, much more that it’s usually seen.
The second episode for me stands on four fundamental interconnected words: humanity, loss, art, and the past.
The new creepy character says "to the monsters, we are the monsters." Kirsten asks him "where did you hear that line?" It was like she was asking me, because I remembered hearing that phrase elsewhere recently. Then it occurred to me: in the movie "the Humans" (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10023286/), where one of the characters (whose actor was in the cast of The Walking Dead) says that when he was a kid there was a comic book that he was obsessed with where space creatures that were half-aliens and half-demons told each other scary stories about us, the humans. I don't remember if the same phrase mentioned here as a prophecy is pronounced (and I have no way of checking), but the meaning was undoubtedly the same. The monsters are us. This gave me very much a sci-fi feeling (also the mention of a certain Dr. Eleven at the beginning of the episode, and linking it to the image of the man in space from the previous episode), but at the same time it gave me the feeling of questioning what makes us human. I couldn't help but notice how wild Kirsten was when she first meets Sarah, who invites her to join the Travelling Symphony. It's not just surviving that makes us human, it's more.
The juxtapositions of Kirsten finding out her parents are dead (or at least one of them) and her acting in Hamlet and the scene regarding the cell phone (then and now) were very powerful. The sense of the past and what it means in the present was strong. The loss is self-evident. Someone here commented at the end of the first episode that they had been reminded of The Leftovers and I hadn't been. But in this episode, I myself was reminded of it, and the feeling was very intense (also the bronze statue, the echoes of the Guilty Remnans with “I remember damage”, the city of Miracle with the whole crowd). Knowing from listening and reading here that the pregnant woman isn't coming back leaves me indifferent. I didn't expect her to return (or possibly in a second season, in case). To me she represents one of the many people who unexpectedly disappear from Kirsten's life, something which she struggles with, from what we are told. And a pregnant woman with a baby represents the future, Kirsten still represents the past, she is anchored to the past, a past that is lost. The final dirge gives the sense of grieving, but even at the beginning when the caravan passes by and is greeted with joy, I got the sense of loss. I had a quick flash of the funeral processions in "Treme," with the second line, and despite the cheerful tone, I got the feeling of celebration of something that is truly gone, of a past that you want to honor. It’s something that you cherish, but that just passes. Again, this feeling came back when the Museum of Civilization representative showed up (nice to see Colantoni). Arthur’s memory, someone we saw dying, is very present.
Here, as in the rest of the episode, art is civilization, art is what allows us to make sense of the world (and again I'm thinking especially of Kirsten finding out about her parents' death and about her acting), it gives meaning. Given that in Shakespeare's time it was men who played the female roles, I found it fitting that it was the new hire who played Gertrude. I was stimulated to hear "it's not about you" referred to acting.
It was a shock - despite the fact that she had previously said that the tattoos on her arm indicated the people she had killed - to see her stab someone. Again, an act that speaks about humanity (or the lack of it) by someone who, as a Shakespearean actor, probably has done that on the stage many times. The world is a stage to Shakespeare, isn’t it? Sorry, thoughts chase each other and overlap. And the tattoos, that symbol is familiar to me as well, but I just think that it reminds me of the one in "Heroes", which I think is supposed to symbolize DNA… I guess (wink to the creepy guy).
Lovely stuff. And, to the point I was making about varied opinions, I love that you took (from finding out the pregnant woman isn't really a presence going forward) that it's a natural element of people coming into and out of Kirsten's life. That's totally legit. I think the difficult part of having "rules" when you're a critic (and not having them so much as a writer), is that in really great shows there are no wasted shots. I still truly believe that, but I can also see how some things "leave an impression" and are not always needing to be purposeful. I don't know. I'm really intrigued by both arguments. For someone who loves ambiguity in storytelling, that doesn't jibe with my critic brain saying, "OK, so why do this, why spend so long on it, without it contributing significantly to the story" -- which is also a good writer's rule, of course.
I totally get what you're saying. And it makes sense. Unity would require that she is at least mentioned again. I don't know, perhaps it is me who have watched soaps for many years and expect her to reappear later, or perhaps it was the character saying something along the lines of "how do you know?" (that we will see each other again), which was a reply that mede sense but that surprised me, but I was expecting not to see her again soon, but in future seasons perhaps.
That Hamlet scene alternating with the flashbacks was indeed quite incredible. And I had the thought: does she do this nearly every night in order to summon up these strong emotions on stage? Can you imagine?
Really appreciate your thoughts. I hadn’t made the Leftover or The Walking Dead connection. So much to see in these episodes.
The second week in a row that you have had terrific responses to the episode. Thanks! Also, many have noted similarities to The Leftovers, and I'm always ready to rethink that fine show, but I'm happy to see your mention of Treme. Is it just me, or does that show exist on a not-as-good-as-some-shows plane? I loved Treme, but I rarely hear/read about it anymore.
I was just talking about second-lines and Treme last weekend. Loved that show and the music it introduced me to.
Thank you! 😊 I think Treme was appreciated, but it’s true that it is rarely mentioned compared to other shows.
I enjoy the connections to other shows. It sounds like all of us have similar tv interests, so it makes it fun to hear what like-minded people have to say. I loved Treme and have yet to meet someone who has even heard of it. You do a great job of being reminded of other shows.
Treme is often unappreciated for what it did and how that came about -- it was a show that marinated in a vibe. Like, "this is a series of stories about New Orleans; all of these things happen at the same time, but may not necessarily be related or, by themselves, dramatic." And I don't think that show gets made if David Simon doesn't do The Wire and, in some part, "Generation Kill," which seemed like a partial favor to HBO at the time.
Rabbit Hole: Put me on the list for a Treme re-watch and discussion. Once you realize that the Davis McElery storyline is not the story of Treme, it's a much better show. It will break your heart, again and again. And, it's got Elvis Costello hanging out with Allen Toussant for a couple episodes!
Thank you for that connection: I saw The Humans on stage and as a movie and it made me feel uncomfortable both times, as does Station Eleven. The idea of humans being the monsters to the monsters comes up in other stories, usually sci-fi and horror, as a way to spin the fear lens around from the creature to ourselves. In The Walking Dead, it becomes apparent rather quickly that the dead are not as dangerous as the other living, and this theme has been set up rather strongly on Station Eleven from the start. Young Kirsten’s parents taught her not to trust strangers and Jeevan introduced himself, named himself to her. We still don’t know the name of the creepy guy. Stranger danger.
I suspect that Kirsten has had to kill people before and that there’s truth in her warning to the creepy guy when she gives that answer about her tattoos, even though she plays it off as a joke in a way that suggests she’s probably kidding she also wants him to think twice about starting anything. The way that she ran to look for Alex and wielded her knife shows much more experience and skill compared to Young Kirsten—both appear motivated by fear-driven self-preservation and there’s clearly more confidence and control that she commands in an unknown situation as an adult. I think she has had to kill humans and that we will learn more about this. I suspect it has something to do with how she ended up separated from Jeevan and Frank, and was left alone to fend for herself as a feral kid. Although we hear often that killing another person takes away one’s humanity, what is it when you kill to protect those you love? In a way that’s very human indeed. I’m rather interested to see how the show tackles this moral quandary.
The intercutting between Hamlet and Kirsten’s personal trauma of the loss of her parents works on many levels. Yes, it’s a function of the reveal of story elements through two timelines with thematic interspersion. But it also comes on the heels of her giving the new guy his first acting lesson, and I saw it as an example of how Kirsten was using her personal memories and calling up those emotions to use in her acting as part of her method. I love how that scene works on multiple levels.
Also, so cool to see Lori Petty again! I loved her in her movies in 1990–1992 and then never saw her again. Just last year I was wondering what ever happened with her career.
Good thought. I must say that Kirsten looks to me like a very trusting kid, anyway. More than I would have been at that age.
The second episode is where I tapped out the first time around. The tension in it caused a lot of anxious feelings for me. The jumping back and forth starts to fill in some of the gaps, making us think about the characters that are shown and those who are missing.
I loved the Independence Day monologue audition, along with the imagined intercom sounds and musical score.
I'm interested in seeing the scenes that directly preceded the start of this episode. How did Kirsten end up in a heap next to the wall? Whose blood is that?
I also get distracted by and focus on the weirdest things. Like why did Kirsten leave the theater still wearing her costume? Also, she's wearing an L.L. Bean jacket and backpack.
ha! Three words in an I saw Bill Pullman delivering one heck of a monologue!
I'm always fixated on the clothes and music and colors. Three key things. So, yeah, right there. I think maybe she'd wearing her costume because she didn't have a chance to change. And it works great because it's so absurd.
Yeah that makes sense. I’m just thinking in a post-pandemic world with no electricity etc wouldn’t people migrate to a mild climate where survival is easier.
I do love the show & the book tho
& like you said about collateral, it’s a short series (and a relatively short book too) so I’m not trying to get caught up in the intricacies of world-building; it’s not GoT where every detail is explained
Interesting that the episode starts with Kirsten covered in blood and with bloody handprints on the wall - it makes you wonder if she had to kill (people? animals?) as a 9/10-yr old in that time on her own before she joined the Traveling Symphony. And of course she's quite deft at stabbing the stranger.
The traveling symphony scenes are so interesting cuz they feel like the Renaissance Faires I used to go to as a teenager (lol). It's like they're cosplaying the Middle Ages, but they're not cosplaying because technology really has regressed! That scene where Kirsten is explaining Uber to Alex!! Must be so weird to live a forced-back-to-the-land life.
This is my second watch, and I must admit that I have wondered where they get their food and drink from. Are they just foraging and/or making it all from scratch? Are they bartering with the small communities where they stop and perform - so like we perform for you and you feed us?
I definitely think the assumption is she had to kill...something. I like the vague part of that. It's like, oh, Young Kristen maybe killed a squirrel or something. Then she pulls the secret switch blade with the straight-in blade. And you think, hmmm, maybe she's killed more.
20 years on my guess is they are pretty much at the grow it, kill it, forage it stage. Anything from the before times would not be edible anymore. The troupe performs, and as payment they get fed.
I confess that when I first watched this episode, I was completely confused, so much so that I was ready to give up on the series. Then my wife explained things, and I decided to give it another chance, and I'm glad I did.
As this is a new online community, and we are all mostly new to each other, I should add that I regularly get lost in plots that are more complicated than See Spot Run, so my confusion is likely just because I was dropped on my head when I was a kid.
Young Kirsten with Knife reminded me of the Feral Kid in Road Warrior.
Trying to stay spoiler free: right after we watched episode three my husband and I looked at each other and both of us said we felt lost. So glad we kept watching!
Steven, this made me laugh, for a couple of reasons. But the main one is that I was once watching a show where I just absolutely could not figure it out and my partner was like, wow, you kinda nail this most of the time so it's strange that you didn't know X was related to Y and they were all working for Z. Seems pretty obvious." So, yeah, happens to all of us. But hey, YES, great connection to Road Warrior. My second viewing of that scene made me realize just how much direction went into it (how Kirsten moves her mouth, etc.) on top of the way they styled her hair to be so, well, feral.