Times like these I'm glad I'm not too smart -- the surprises are better. I really didn't peg Tyler as the Prophet until he opened the wrapped copy of Station Eleven.
For most of episode 4 I was thinking "if you introduce a mine in Act 1...." I was a bit disappointed that they went from the whole troupe standing in the middle of an unmapped minefield to them all safely having dinner later. But they certainly redeemed themselves when the explosion actually happened.
I definitely agree with the "huh?" factor of Clark suddenly thinking Tyler is a destroyer. I actually thought I must have skipped part of the episode until I read Tim's comment.
Finally, a nice touch at the Severn City Airport when Elizabeth and Tyler are suspected of being infected, and Clark says: "We're not monsters." Thank you for not spelling out that reference like a lesser show would have done.
I got a kick from the sneaky Gordon Lightfoot references, including the airport announcement that luggage was available "under the Edmund Fitzgerald"; and the name of the doomed airline was "Gitchegumee Air". Also many of the interior scenes were shot in the Ontario Science Centre Great Hall. 🇨🇦
A great companion to the series (in addition to this dialogue) is the podcast series that's been done by showrunner Patrick Sommerville. There's ten episodes mirroring the series and it includes interviews with a variety of cast and crew. https://open.spotify.com/show/65PvsnUeBths5mnYSryTjY?si=72f209da0fa74f5c
Ep 5: This was my absolute fave episode on my first watch (tho I didn't get past ep 7), and it's still so good. Can we even call it a bottle episode since civilization is essentially all living in a bottle after the pandemic? Anyway, it gives bottle episode vibes in the best ways. It still might be my favorite.
Some observations:
Colantoni's first words to Clark are "Sei pazzo?" (Are you crazy) lol. That wig - so bad!!
I love Caitlin Fitzgerald, glad to see her get a meaty episode. The extent of Arthur's philandering and deadbeat-dadding wasn't quite as clear in the Miranda episode as it is here.
Clark's initial stance is so mellow & empathetic - and he def goes power mad. I did find the scene of him finding out Tim died through voicemails incredibly effective - I imagine Clark felt very guilty for and not trying hard enough to communicate before it happened.
I can see the roots of how Tyler breaks bad in this episode, esp after the quarantined guy is shot and killed - he loses faith in all adults essentially. Interesting that earlier he also questioned Clark's claim that the community needed hierarchy (leaders).
But what wasn't as convincing, as Tim noted, was Clark's notion that Tyler was suddenly a destroyer, and that he and Elizabeth had to be exiled. Tyler used good deductive reasoning to figure out the guy wasn't infectious so there wasn't really a reason to shoot him. So how does he get to be so destructive, sending kids to their death via suicide bombs, like in ep 4?
The Gitche Gumme airplane that's quarantined: I first thought because of the non-western name maybe it was from Malaysia, where Miranda was when the flu hit. But I looked it up and it's the indigenous name for Lake Superior. I guess a very small regional airline.
One thing I keep wondering (a little bit of an obsession for me throughout the show lol): food. How much food does an airport really contain? Could dozens of people really survive for months, not to mention years, on the airport food stock?
I also forgot to mention in ep 4 at the country club with Gil: everyone's eating food pouches. I guess they figured out it was a way to preserve food without refrigeration.
Ep 4: (I didn't watch them back to back but I want to write about each while they're fresh in my mind)
I loved Alex's mini-monologue after the play when Kirsten doesn't want her to go out. Her insight into the way "pre-pans" live in constant fear and are so regimented because of their trauma just rang so true. I felt for her so much as one of the few post-pans having to deal with the consequence of this trauma. It's a beautiful depiction of intergenerational trauma. By the way, do we know who Alex's parents are and if they're still alive?
That last scene was directed really beautifully with Sarah playing the piano while Kirsten is frantically trying to catch the kids before they blow up Gil. I've seen ep 5 already so I know the big reveal but I feel like a lot more story needs to be laid out about Tyler/the Prophet to get to how he hates pre-pans so bad he wants to kill them all. I agree with Tim that the show hasn't sufficiently established the roots of him becoming so evil/radicalized.
But I'll say more about ep 5 after rewatching - that episode was my absolute favorite on my first watch of the show (though I only got to ep 7).
Ep 3 & 5 are my favorites and both of those had less to do with the story and more to do with background / world building. When I saw ep1, I recall posting that it was the "omg how did we get here" bit that was my opt-in moment (and where I embarrassingly mentioned I was into FtWD).
Observations:
- I've always thought that airports and cruise ships are not bad places to be for long periods of time. Both are mini-cities. I mean that Tom Hanks movie "The Terminal" was based off a guy who lived in an airport for 18 years.
- The whole thing about a cruise ship - I might mention The Last Ship here which was based on a pandemic that knocked out 80% of the population.
- I also very much wondered what I would do in similar situations. Kill the lone survivor?
- Which is worse? A plane full of zombies or dead people? Or snakes?
Feb 21, 2022·edited Feb 21, 2022Liked by Tim Goodman
Episode 4 ending with the grandchildren bombing Pingtree was very unsettling and makes me wonder what Tyler/The Prophet’s end game is. The episode had me so engrossed I said “No!” out loud when it happened.
Episode 5 was well done but I agree Clark deciding Elizabeth and Tyler needed to go and Tyler was a threat happened without giving us much proof. Maybe after talking with Elizabeth when she says people loved listening to Arthur compared to how hard Clark has to work just to get people to like him something snapped in Clark. Clark talking over the radio about how Tyler is “bold, indifferent to authority, singular. A destroyer.” shows Clark sees Tyler (and by association Elizabeth) as a threat. Tyler being able to tell when people are lying and wanting to be informed (having the radio) saved his life.
I’ve heard from multiple sources that episode 6 is not one of the best but because we’re doing two together I’m looking forward to Friday. Definitely difficult to stop after the end of episode 5.
I’m finding this show agitating to watch, and it’s this community that is keeping me going. I like that we increased to two episodes per week at this point in the series. Giada Da Ros and Patrick Robles have provided so much insight, along with all the other comments, so I’ll just add:
When Elizabeth tells Tyler she’s been burning Arthur’s letters to him because she’s selfish, I connected it with her comment about how being locked in this airport has brought them closer and that she had achieved a state of radical candor about herself. When she tells Clark that line about Tyler being great at spotting lies, it flipped that entire scene between Elizabeth and Tyler on its head, and also suggested another reason besides her selfish stardom for why she has trouble connecting with her son and has a nanny. I’m also rewatching Westworld right now, and there’s an idea in it that however kind you may be in the real world, if you’re a monster in the park there’s an element of that truth that can be sensed by those closest to you. Although I agree that Clark’s speech was not well motivated about calling Tyler a destroyer, the episode put ample effort into establishing the “creepy kid” effect in a way that went beyond “normal” responses to losing a parent and living through the upheaval of a pandemic (see: Kirsten in ep. 1).
The way they the children take out Gil with a weaponized hug is chilling. As disturbing as it was to see the reveal of what The Prophet has been doing with them, I was a bit disappointed that it seems at this point to be a basic brainwashing and terrorism plot, promise these post-pan kids something alluring and lead them down a path of destruction. It could be that the execution (pardon the word choice) of this plot element may save it from being too closely associated with the way some of our entertainment has glibly linked the idea that everyone who follows a certain other prophet may as well be a terrorist. I’m intrigued by the storytelling and our accompanying chats to keep watching to find out where it all goes.
First I have to share an observation from ANOTHER recap I read during my first time watching:
There is a very clear distinction between "Pre pans" and "Post pans" ESPECIALLY in the way they view the world. Post Pans aren't nearly as freaked out by strangers and aren't as pessimistic about everything...
Now my own thoughts starting from Episode 4:
- The cross cutting with Kirsten is far more effective on a second viewing ESPECIALLY having the full picture...
- I have to confess I didn't fully understand why they were going to Pingtree the first time I watched...
- "It's set Poland"
"Portland"
"Whatever"...
That's probably very true at this point...
- Katrina with the most obvious observation EVER regarding a gaggle of kidnapped kids in post apocalyptic Michigan/Illinois: "Sometimes I think we should be out there looking for them" (Um,
no $hit)
- Apparently Post Pans would literally rather die than play miniature golf...
- Pingtree is EXACTLY the type of community that Rick Grimes, Darryl, and Carol would (inadvertently) burn to the ground in like half a day trying to "help" them out...
Episode 5:
LOVED this episode the first time I watched, loved it even more the second time. I didn't even pay attention to Clark the few times he's around before this, they actually made it obvious how important he was going to be when you really look...
This is the perfect mid point episode: It fills in a bunch of gaps and sets up everything nicely for the tail end...
- I didn't realize the weird guy on the bike pestering The Symphony was Elizabeth's agent...
- Nice overhead shot as Clark begins to realize how serious stuff is...
- The newscaster warning her loved ones and walking off set is totally unsettling no matter how many times I see it...
- It turns out The Nanny is one who starts changing Clark's mind on some things: "Would you die for a stranger?"
- It took exactly 12 days for Clark to go from "They're all heroes" to "Shoot em in the head!"
- And another 30 to go from admonishing Elizabeth because Tyler is "Sitting in front of a plane of corpses" to not even giving a rat's a$$ that he's been locked up on a plane wearing a shirt full of brain matter for a month...
- Clark discovering the truth about the janitor while dropping deuce in the mop sink is the mirror image of Hank discovering the truth about Walt in "Breaking Bad"...
- In another show Clark's big speech would ring false, but his speech was set up perfectly and its very obvious his character has waited his whole life for moment like this...
- Elizabeth to Clark about Tyler: "He can tell when people are lying". I think that freaked him out about the kid more than anything...
First the bad: the whimsical moments of the show are starting to grate on me, my least favourite scenes involve the musical troupe in their most flight-of-fantasy-fancy-free. The Shakespeare references are also tiring.
BUT! The way both episodes started with those distinct repeating sounds, they almost sounded the same. I loved these subtle linkings, and happy that we watched them back to back. Does this set up Kirsten and Tyler as the main protagonist/antagonists of the season? The Jack and Ben? Two halves, the angel and the devil on your shoulders? Two kids who had serious divergence in experience post Day 1?
Is there going to be this "One episode on the main story, one bottle episode, rinse and repeat" cadence to the season? I am not enjoying how disjointed this type of storytelling is. Its structure is reminding me of this book we're reading at our work DEI-themed Book Club called "The Vanishing Half." I can only assume we're going to continue to find out more and more until all the pilot strands merge. I await that - Episode 10?
I also loved how Enrico Colantoni's Brian didn't clasp his helmet's straps, and how his accent softened from the airport to the bike ride. I've lived in London for 22 years and mine hasn't changed, I guess the post-pan crowd lose their accents.
Both episodes were superlative, slowly unwinding plots (aren’t ten-episode seasons better than 2-hour films?), fine acting (with spot-on casting), eclectic eerie music, and an overpowering sense of dystopia that most so-called dystopias can’t achieve. I think we’re beginning to perceive the outlines of the grand narrative but we can expect surprises. So much mystery remains but the script (and presumably the underlying book, which, by the way, I’m glad I haven’t read) feels strongly managed and paced. I can’t wait for Ep 6.
I loved the Severn City Airport episode. At times, great series have standalone episodes that feel like a whole series encapsulated within one episode, and I feel like this episode is an example of that idea. It was perfectly encapsulated within itself within the context of the series as a whole. It reminded me of the 'fly' episode of breaking bad - movimg the emotional narrative of key characters forward without necessarily moving the plot narrative forward all that much. Both had flaws within the episode itself, but functioned as a creative, narrative, and tonal shift that may not have mirrored the narrative of the larger series itself, but still operated as a unique, interesting episode within the biome of the series at large.
They are doing a good job of using time jumps not just to deepen the world building, but also to give depth to the characters. This isn't always true with stuff that has multiple timelines.
Times like these I'm glad I'm not too smart -- the surprises are better. I really didn't peg Tyler as the Prophet until he opened the wrapped copy of Station Eleven.
For most of episode 4 I was thinking "if you introduce a mine in Act 1...." I was a bit disappointed that they went from the whole troupe standing in the middle of an unmapped minefield to them all safely having dinner later. But they certainly redeemed themselves when the explosion actually happened.
I definitely agree with the "huh?" factor of Clark suddenly thinking Tyler is a destroyer. I actually thought I must have skipped part of the episode until I read Tim's comment.
Finally, a nice touch at the Severn City Airport when Elizabeth and Tyler are suspected of being infected, and Clark says: "We're not monsters." Thank you for not spelling out that reference like a lesser show would have done.
I got a kick from the sneaky Gordon Lightfoot references, including the airport announcement that luggage was available "under the Edmund Fitzgerald"; and the name of the doomed airline was "Gitchegumee Air". Also many of the interior scenes were shot in the Ontario Science Centre Great Hall. 🇨🇦
A great companion to the series (in addition to this dialogue) is the podcast series that's been done by showrunner Patrick Sommerville. There's ten episodes mirroring the series and it includes interviews with a variety of cast and crew. https://open.spotify.com/show/65PvsnUeBths5mnYSryTjY?si=72f209da0fa74f5c
Ep 5: This was my absolute fave episode on my first watch (tho I didn't get past ep 7), and it's still so good. Can we even call it a bottle episode since civilization is essentially all living in a bottle after the pandemic? Anyway, it gives bottle episode vibes in the best ways. It still might be my favorite.
Some observations:
Colantoni's first words to Clark are "Sei pazzo?" (Are you crazy) lol. That wig - so bad!!
I love Caitlin Fitzgerald, glad to see her get a meaty episode. The extent of Arthur's philandering and deadbeat-dadding wasn't quite as clear in the Miranda episode as it is here.
Clark's initial stance is so mellow & empathetic - and he def goes power mad. I did find the scene of him finding out Tim died through voicemails incredibly effective - I imagine Clark felt very guilty for and not trying hard enough to communicate before it happened.
I can see the roots of how Tyler breaks bad in this episode, esp after the quarantined guy is shot and killed - he loses faith in all adults essentially. Interesting that earlier he also questioned Clark's claim that the community needed hierarchy (leaders).
But what wasn't as convincing, as Tim noted, was Clark's notion that Tyler was suddenly a destroyer, and that he and Elizabeth had to be exiled. Tyler used good deductive reasoning to figure out the guy wasn't infectious so there wasn't really a reason to shoot him. So how does he get to be so destructive, sending kids to their death via suicide bombs, like in ep 4?
The Gitche Gumme airplane that's quarantined: I first thought because of the non-western name maybe it was from Malaysia, where Miranda was when the flu hit. But I looked it up and it's the indigenous name for Lake Superior. I guess a very small regional airline.
One thing I keep wondering (a little bit of an obsession for me throughout the show lol): food. How much food does an airport really contain? Could dozens of people really survive for months, not to mention years, on the airport food stock?
I also forgot to mention in ep 4 at the country club with Gil: everyone's eating food pouches. I guess they figured out it was a way to preserve food without refrigeration.
Ep 4: (I didn't watch them back to back but I want to write about each while they're fresh in my mind)
I loved Alex's mini-monologue after the play when Kirsten doesn't want her to go out. Her insight into the way "pre-pans" live in constant fear and are so regimented because of their trauma just rang so true. I felt for her so much as one of the few post-pans having to deal with the consequence of this trauma. It's a beautiful depiction of intergenerational trauma. By the way, do we know who Alex's parents are and if they're still alive?
That last scene was directed really beautifully with Sarah playing the piano while Kirsten is frantically trying to catch the kids before they blow up Gil. I've seen ep 5 already so I know the big reveal but I feel like a lot more story needs to be laid out about Tyler/the Prophet to get to how he hates pre-pans so bad he wants to kill them all. I agree with Tim that the show hasn't sufficiently established the roots of him becoming so evil/radicalized.
But I'll say more about ep 5 after rewatching - that episode was my absolute favorite on my first watch of the show (though I only got to ep 7).
Wonder whether the collection of things Clark started assembling in the airport tower is the start of the Museum of Civilization…
The click of the lighter. End of #4 start of #5. Really captured me. Simple little sound. So ominous.
Ep 3 & 5 are my favorites and both of those had less to do with the story and more to do with background / world building. When I saw ep1, I recall posting that it was the "omg how did we get here" bit that was my opt-in moment (and where I embarrassingly mentioned I was into FtWD).
Observations:
- I've always thought that airports and cruise ships are not bad places to be for long periods of time. Both are mini-cities. I mean that Tom Hanks movie "The Terminal" was based off a guy who lived in an airport for 18 years.
- The whole thing about a cruise ship - I might mention The Last Ship here which was based on a pandemic that knocked out 80% of the population.
- I also very much wondered what I would do in similar situations. Kill the lone survivor?
- Which is worse? A plane full of zombies or dead people? Or snakes?
Episode 4 ending with the grandchildren bombing Pingtree was very unsettling and makes me wonder what Tyler/The Prophet’s end game is. The episode had me so engrossed I said “No!” out loud when it happened.
Episode 5 was well done but I agree Clark deciding Elizabeth and Tyler needed to go and Tyler was a threat happened without giving us much proof. Maybe after talking with Elizabeth when she says people loved listening to Arthur compared to how hard Clark has to work just to get people to like him something snapped in Clark. Clark talking over the radio about how Tyler is “bold, indifferent to authority, singular. A destroyer.” shows Clark sees Tyler (and by association Elizabeth) as a threat. Tyler being able to tell when people are lying and wanting to be informed (having the radio) saved his life.
I’ve heard from multiple sources that episode 6 is not one of the best but because we’re doing two together I’m looking forward to Friday. Definitely difficult to stop after the end of episode 5.
I’m finding this show agitating to watch, and it’s this community that is keeping me going. I like that we increased to two episodes per week at this point in the series. Giada Da Ros and Patrick Robles have provided so much insight, along with all the other comments, so I’ll just add:
When Elizabeth tells Tyler she’s been burning Arthur’s letters to him because she’s selfish, I connected it with her comment about how being locked in this airport has brought them closer and that she had achieved a state of radical candor about herself. When she tells Clark that line about Tyler being great at spotting lies, it flipped that entire scene between Elizabeth and Tyler on its head, and also suggested another reason besides her selfish stardom for why she has trouble connecting with her son and has a nanny. I’m also rewatching Westworld right now, and there’s an idea in it that however kind you may be in the real world, if you’re a monster in the park there’s an element of that truth that can be sensed by those closest to you. Although I agree that Clark’s speech was not well motivated about calling Tyler a destroyer, the episode put ample effort into establishing the “creepy kid” effect in a way that went beyond “normal” responses to losing a parent and living through the upheaval of a pandemic (see: Kirsten in ep. 1).
The way they the children take out Gil with a weaponized hug is chilling. As disturbing as it was to see the reveal of what The Prophet has been doing with them, I was a bit disappointed that it seems at this point to be a basic brainwashing and terrorism plot, promise these post-pan kids something alluring and lead them down a path of destruction. It could be that the execution (pardon the word choice) of this plot element may save it from being too closely associated with the way some of our entertainment has glibly linked the idea that everyone who follows a certain other prophet may as well be a terrorist. I’m intrigued by the storytelling and our accompanying chats to keep watching to find out where it all goes.
First I have to share an observation from ANOTHER recap I read during my first time watching:
There is a very clear distinction between "Pre pans" and "Post pans" ESPECIALLY in the way they view the world. Post Pans aren't nearly as freaked out by strangers and aren't as pessimistic about everything...
Now my own thoughts starting from Episode 4:
- The cross cutting with Kirsten is far more effective on a second viewing ESPECIALLY having the full picture...
- I have to confess I didn't fully understand why they were going to Pingtree the first time I watched...
- "It's set Poland"
"Portland"
"Whatever"...
That's probably very true at this point...
- Katrina with the most obvious observation EVER regarding a gaggle of kidnapped kids in post apocalyptic Michigan/Illinois: "Sometimes I think we should be out there looking for them" (Um,
no $hit)
- Apparently Post Pans would literally rather die than play miniature golf...
- Pingtree is EXACTLY the type of community that Rick Grimes, Darryl, and Carol would (inadvertently) burn to the ground in like half a day trying to "help" them out...
Episode 5:
LOVED this episode the first time I watched, loved it even more the second time. I didn't even pay attention to Clark the few times he's around before this, they actually made it obvious how important he was going to be when you really look...
This is the perfect mid point episode: It fills in a bunch of gaps and sets up everything nicely for the tail end...
- I didn't realize the weird guy on the bike pestering The Symphony was Elizabeth's agent...
- Nice overhead shot as Clark begins to realize how serious stuff is...
- The newscaster warning her loved ones and walking off set is totally unsettling no matter how many times I see it...
- It turns out The Nanny is one who starts changing Clark's mind on some things: "Would you die for a stranger?"
- It took exactly 12 days for Clark to go from "They're all heroes" to "Shoot em in the head!"
- And another 30 to go from admonishing Elizabeth because Tyler is "Sitting in front of a plane of corpses" to not even giving a rat's a$$ that he's been locked up on a plane wearing a shirt full of brain matter for a month...
- Clark discovering the truth about the janitor while dropping deuce in the mop sink is the mirror image of Hank discovering the truth about Walt in "Breaking Bad"...
- In another show Clark's big speech would ring false, but his speech was set up perfectly and its very obvious his character has waited his whole life for moment like this...
- Elizabeth to Clark about Tyler: "He can tell when people are lying". I think that freaked him out about the kid more than anything...
Lots of great subtle lines in both episodes. “Phones take videos” in particular had me smiling.
First the bad: the whimsical moments of the show are starting to grate on me, my least favourite scenes involve the musical troupe in their most flight-of-fantasy-fancy-free. The Shakespeare references are also tiring.
BUT! The way both episodes started with those distinct repeating sounds, they almost sounded the same. I loved these subtle linkings, and happy that we watched them back to back. Does this set up Kirsten and Tyler as the main protagonist/antagonists of the season? The Jack and Ben? Two halves, the angel and the devil on your shoulders? Two kids who had serious divergence in experience post Day 1?
Is there going to be this "One episode on the main story, one bottle episode, rinse and repeat" cadence to the season? I am not enjoying how disjointed this type of storytelling is. Its structure is reminding me of this book we're reading at our work DEI-themed Book Club called "The Vanishing Half." I can only assume we're going to continue to find out more and more until all the pilot strands merge. I await that - Episode 10?
I also loved how Enrico Colantoni's Brian didn't clasp his helmet's straps, and how his accent softened from the airport to the bike ride. I've lived in London for 22 years and mine hasn't changed, I guess the post-pan crowd lose their accents.
Both episodes were superlative, slowly unwinding plots (aren’t ten-episode seasons better than 2-hour films?), fine acting (with spot-on casting), eclectic eerie music, and an overpowering sense of dystopia that most so-called dystopias can’t achieve. I think we’re beginning to perceive the outlines of the grand narrative but we can expect surprises. So much mystery remains but the script (and presumably the underlying book, which, by the way, I’m glad I haven’t read) feels strongly managed and paced. I can’t wait for Ep 6.
I loved the Severn City Airport episode. At times, great series have standalone episodes that feel like a whole series encapsulated within one episode, and I feel like this episode is an example of that idea. It was perfectly encapsulated within itself within the context of the series as a whole. It reminded me of the 'fly' episode of breaking bad - movimg the emotional narrative of key characters forward without necessarily moving the plot narrative forward all that much. Both had flaws within the episode itself, but functioned as a creative, narrative, and tonal shift that may not have mirrored the narrative of the larger series itself, but still operated as a unique, interesting episode within the biome of the series at large.
They are doing a good job of using time jumps not just to deepen the world building, but also to give depth to the characters. This isn't always true with stuff that has multiple timelines.